Avid Editor figuring out workflows before buying Kinemini 4K

A place to discuss your Kinefinity workflow.
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mhwhippet
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Tue May 19, 2015 3:10 pm

Hi there...this may be a longish and involved post, but I want to work out workflows for several possibilities before I spend some money on this camera.

My situation is as follows: I edit on Avid Media Composer 8.3.1 on a Windows 7 platform. I also have Black Magic Resolve 11. Myself and two friends of mine are thinking of buying this camera between us. The editing platform of my friend is Final Cut Pro 7 / X on a Mac obviously. I am trying to work out the most efficient way of working with the footage from a kinemini 4K.

What I would like to do, as an Avid editor is this:

1. Record in 2K Cineform RAW
2. Ingest into Resolve 11
3. Pre-grade
4. Export MXF proxies and edit in Avid
5. Re-import into Resolve and grade.

What I can't seem to figure out is how hampered you are in Resolve using Cineform RAW. Do you have access to the metadata to do a true RAW grade? If I can't do this, presumably my workflow will be to record 2K DNG in camera and do a standard Resolve - Avid - Resolve roundtrip. Can anyone tell me the data rate of the 2K DNG files that the KM 4K records, and can you please confirm that Resolve works with these files as recorded in the KM 4K.

Also, this may not be the place for this question, but does anyone know if someone is working on a cineform RAW codec for Avid?

For Premiere / FCP, am I right in thinking that I can go straight in with cineform RAW with no need to transcode and can access the RAW information within those programmes, or do I still have to go via resolve and do a round trip?

Thanks very much, Mark

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silvertonesx24
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: USA

Thu May 21, 2015 6:43 pm

I was never able to get this to work for my own Mac setup, but basically you can edit Cineform Raw metadata in resolve

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?13273 ... ci-Resolve

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mhwhippet
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Sat May 23, 2015 12:31 pm

Thank you so much for this. I will try out the workflow.

Do you know of any kinemin 4k Cineform RAW test files floating around. Am struggling to find any.

Ta, Mark. X

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aspirepro
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:10 pm

Sat May 23, 2015 10:32 pm

Here's a thought if you haven't seen the practicality behind Cineform(which there is unfortunately not a lot of info out there about it)
Whether or not you are using Avid, FinalCut or Premiere(or any other NLE for that matter) CIneform is what Kinefinity chose for the simple reason of Active Metadata...

I had a hard time understanding this and found little resources online that comprehensively discussed the Cineform workflow, however, after a lot of research I found the method behind the madness of kinefinity's choice for taking Cineform under their wing.

First of all, you have to understand that Cineform is designed to be handled within it's home inside GoPro studio Premium(Previously Cineform Studio Pro, or Firstlight as it used to be called before GoPro bought out Cineform). GoPro Studio Premium offers the basic functionality of Davinci Resolve like 'gain' "gamma' and 'lift', sharpness and color temperature within its own home without causing too much degradation to the RAW data of the 4:1 raw compression of Cineform RAW(from Kinefinity's files) which in any other NLE would cause damage and compression artifacts to the image.

Davinci Resolve has recently integrated Cineforms Live metadata into its arsenal of supported codecs, which allow you to fully utilize this powerful codec to its full potential.

In case you haven't fully acquainted yourself with the concept of Cineform's live metadata magic...Here is the beauty in nutshell:
Cineform allows you to manipulate the RAW Data of your footage and play back real time in any NLE.

That means that if you open GoPro Studio Premium(best solution for Cineform-Costs $300, but totally worth it!) you can have another NLE open and make live changes to your color that by simply making an adjustment inside GoPro studio you will be able to see the live change inside your NLE without causing the same damage that comes with trying to color inside an NLE.

To break things down- I use Cineform hand in hand with Premiere Pro CC which have in the last year incorporated masks within any visual effects(which is why I am not as attracted to Resolve as I used to be)... I simply have both GoPro Studio and Premiere open at the same time for when I am coloring-I can just go back and forth and make adjustments to the color and add simple effects to my masks without having to make a million exports out of Resolve as would be the case in previous times.

You could potentially use masking in AVID to attain the same results... But I prefer the new tracking masks in Premiere and it saves me a ton of money in post production not having to jump back and forth all the time.

I hope that this helped in some way

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mhwhippet
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Sun May 24, 2015 8:44 pm

Hi there, and thanks for that really informative reply. A lot of information in there that I didn't know. At the moment, there is no Avid support for natively dealing with Cineform RAW, and although I love Avid to its core, its AMA Linking system for dealing with non-native codecs really isn't viable for the kind of longform, complex work that I tend to do. Therefore, for me, I think that coming from this camera, I am basically going to be looking at a roundtrip in Resolve which is fine, but obviously, for space saving reasons, I would prefer to do a Cineform RAW roundtrip rather than a DNG one...so if the patch...

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?13273 ... ci-Resolve

...to edit CFR metadata in Resolve works, then that might be my work around. I wonder what the possibility is on Kinefinity allowing DNX or ProRes recording as part of a firmware update?

Also still looking for ANY Cineform RAW movs online to actually test my theory. Any ideas?

Thanks so much again for your time.

Mark

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jmurphydale
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:26 am

Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:43 am

Would love to know if the resolve patch works as well. Also is there any degradation when going from KRW to Cineform 444? How about KRW to DNG? I would REAAAALLLY like to not work with DNG if possible. Looking at the Terra 6k

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